The Write Channel

(Ep. 4) How Does Attachment Shape the Way We Write? A Dialogue With Licensed Therapist & Poet Duni Porter

• Janaye Jordan • Season 1 • Episode 4

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Today, I sit down with Duni Porter—a poet, therapist, and former client of mine—to talk about the connection between writing, healing, and attachment.

Duni shares how poetry found her through music, what it was like to publish her first collection, and how she’s learned to trust her creative process over time.

We explore how attachment styles show up in writing—from fear of sharing to struggling to begin—and how to move through those blocks with more awareness and self-trust.

This conversation is a grounded reminder that writing isn’t just about craft—it’s about safety, connection, and learning to trust your voice.

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Connect with Duni:

Connect with Janaye (host of The Write Channel):


SPEAKER_01

Hi everyone, I am Janae Jordan, and you are at the right channel. If you are a writer, then you're in the right place because here we talk about channeling and all things creativity, getting into that flow state. I'm so excited because I am joined by Dooney Porter today, and I'll give you some background on how Dooney and I know each other. So we'll go back to 2021 because that is when Dooney first reached out to me to help her publish her first poetry collection. And Dooney, I think I told you this. You were the first poet that I worked with professionally. And I was a bit nervous because I at that point I had not started writing poetry. I had not edited a poetry collection, but I was really inspired by your work and was eager to take it on. And so that was a first for me. Um so I appreciate you trusting me with that. We worked on your first collection together called Everything in Between. You published it in 2021. And so when I was dreaming up this podcast, you were one of the first people that came to mind because my personal journey with poetry, poetry like visited me, I feel like, as a language. And so I'm excited to talk to you. You are also a licensed therapist. And so you bring such an invaluable perspective to this conversation about writing and channeling. So welcome. I'm happy to have you here.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, thank you so much, Jang. I feel truly blessed to be a part of this. Um, and I'm just I'm really grateful to have the opportunity to once again just connect back with you after all these years and just talk and chat. Like I feel like I feel like it's definitely necessary. So thank you for having me and thank you for thinking of me.

SPEAKER_01

Of course, and we have a lot to talk about. So we will jump right in. Well, let me give our listeners an overview of what we're gonna be talking about or the themes we'll be touching on because Dooney, you are a poet, you are a writer, you are also a licensed therapist, and one of your specialties is attachment theory, which I'm vastly interested in. So I want to make sure that we integrate all of those themes in our conversation. I'm really interested in your perspective as a therapist and especially how writing helps you and your clients as we are coming into self-awareness and especially getting into that flow state. So we'll touch on all of those things, okay? So, Duny, I want to hear from you. When did poetry first enter your life? And how and how has your relationship with writing shifted over time?

SPEAKER_00

Poetry first entered my life. I feel like through music, um, I want to say, as I was growing up, I would be in my room listening to super sad songs, um, songs that just, you know, evoke emotion. And I feel like through that, um, listening to the words lended me to then read, you know, and I think that that helped me along my way. And so I feel like music was like my first introduction to poetry. But then as I grew up to read just different books, poetry, the genre made me feel um, made me feel the most. And so I would say like I was maybe 14, 15, um, probably younger than that. Um, and I'm I'm listening to um I'm listening to like Daughtery, and I'm listening to like um uh Paramour, and I'm listening just to just to so many different artists and just hearing how they portray their music and then reading the lyrics and just feeling so so connected to it and feeling like like this is this is poetry, this is this is speaking to the soul. Um, and then going on to like reading, I think that poetry, the dramas, that really made me feel super connected. It made me feel super connected to other people because I was just like, oh my goodness, I'm feeling this, you're feeling this. So this is not just something that's like in a bubble, it's everywhere. Um, and that just made me feel um connected and also just made me curious. I think after that I was really curious, and then it has shifted into I wanted to then um put all of my work together to create, you know, my first published book. Um, and that was super exciting. But I think throughout that, I also have thought about how like if I'm not writing, what does that mean? You know, if I'm constantly writing, what does that mean? If I'm experiencing, what does that mean? Is that is poetry like, is it everywhere? Does that do I have to be physically um putting pen to paper for something to come alive? And so I feel like that is something that I've wrestled with for a long time. And so I feel like now I'm here in that space and just trying to um kind of bridge that gap.

SPEAKER_01

So I'm hearing that poetry found you through the vehicle of music. I love that you express that you like to look up the song lyrics and read the lyrics. I'm someone that like many times has to do that to even understand what some what some singers are saying. I think it's some auditory processing issues, but it really does enhance your understanding of the work when you take the time to read the lyrics. And so I'm curious for you when the transition happened from listening and maybe like soaking up that language to you um speaking that language as a writer. So did you start writing like your own songs at first? Or did you just start writing poetry and was it around the same age? You mentioned like 14, 15.

SPEAKER_00

Um, I would say it wasn't, I didn't necessarily write songs, but I I think I looked at the lyrics as a way of like, without the music, what is happening here? And that's what made me feel super connected. And then it transformed into then, okay, I'm gonna start writing poetry. Um, and it didn't have necessarily have to be connected to, I guess, the um hearing piece of it in terms of like hearing the rhythm and all of that, but also it's super, it's still super connected. So I think that's what made me want to transform. And then um in college, I did major, uh, I was an English major. So that was like um it's a journey into itself, but I really, really then grew my love for poetry um as well, and so I feel like the music accompanying within like um pursuing studying um English and just studying um different types of writing definitely helped me and helped me start that process.

SPEAKER_01

That's so interesting. And so, what is your definition, if you have one, of or your experience of channeling when you're writing poetry or when it's coming to you, what is that? How would you describe that experience?

SPEAKER_00

Oh, like when you're saying that, it literally like it just gave me tingles because it's like I feel like it is so I could be walking, I could be walking down the street. Um, me and you talked about this briefly, but like I could be walking down the street, I could be in my car, I could be talking to one of my clients, you know, and those things really um come up for me. And so I think I've had to along the way figure out, okay, how am I going to, I guess, document this, not forget it, because um so many things can happen in one day, in one time. And so I usually sometimes I'll voice note, or sometimes I'm just like in my notes app, like writing down these topics or themes. Um, but I I find that it comes to me in moments where I'm not seeking. I'm not trying to, you know, I'm not trying to figure out like what does this mean or what am I feeling, but I'm allowing that feeling to come to me. So it really comes um in different ways. I could be in the shower, I could be anywhere. But if I'm purposefully trying to do it, it is more so um me, I am listening to music or um I am reading or I'm talking to a good friend of mine. That also like community is really big to me. And so whenever I plug, whenever I try to plug that piece in there of like, okay, when I'm talking to one of my dear friends and we are talking about these maybe lighthearted topics or deep topics, that fuels me even more and it and it's so personal. And so I try to find different ways to um, I guess, allow it to come to me um rather than it just be kind of in a traditional way uh way where I'm like in a, I guess, with my laptop or like in a closed-off area. And like, you know, I I allow myself to be in kind of the chaos and still allow it to come as well.

SPEAKER_01

Hmm. So I'm hearing that a large part of your process is listening and receiving. And I'm sure that involves a lot of um that requires you to be perceptive, probably and what pick up on. Are you able to when you're with people? I'm sure in your work as a therapist, picking up on emotions, picking up on the unspoken things is a big part of your practice. Um so have you found that you can translate or part of your work as a poet is like translating those emotions or unspoken things into written form, finding words for those things?

SPEAKER_00

Yes, yes. I don't know how many times I'm always like, wait, wait, I know what I'm trying to say, or I know the word for that, but I can't find it in that moment. And so I have to like allow it to pass. And it'll it almost always comes back. But yeah, I always am trying to figure out like, what is that specific word or what is that? And then I have to remind myself I don't need to have the specific word. Like I can, I can really, I think, expand on the feeling or expand on what I'm trying to say, and then that those words are going to come. Um, but I do, I think I utilize um the talking to whenever you're saying that, me talking to my clients kind of came up um a lot in terms of like, I don't necessarily know their experience firsthand. I don't know everything that they've been through. But when they say something to me and it speaks to me, I'm always trying to, you know, reiterate it back to them to see if we're on the same page. And I think that all that also plays a big role with poetry and language because I don't always have to be on the same page as everyone else. I just need to know what page I'm on. Um, and so it's kind of a balancing act with like trying to figure out how where other people are, but knowing that it's okay if I don't know. It's okay if like I'm I'm wrong on on their account because they're always gonna fill in the gaps for me. And so I've I've had to like kind of um, I think I've had I'm a little bit of a perfectionist of wanting to find the perfect thing to say or the perfect thing to do, but also just allowing them to be the expert and then kind of piggybacking off of that or just like running with whatever they're going, whatever direction they're going.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, yeah. It's a mirroring. Yes, and it's I think that's very closely connected to the creative writing process, right? Like mirroring maybe for me, if it's like I'm in nature, kind of trying to mirror in words what I'm seeing or sensing or feeling without it's like removing that fill that judge that filter of judgment. And um, it's so integral to the process. And I'm sure that your training and your ex like your experience talking to your clients just gives you another layer to pull from. It's like it's like an ongoing practice so that when you do sit down to write, you're like you've amassed so much experience. We'll get into that a little bit more, like your professional work. I want to know for you. Let's talk about the the process of compiling your your poetry collection for everything in between, which was your first self-published piece, right? I can't remember how many poems was in that collection, but can you remember a lot? Yeah. Can you remember like how long you'd been working on those poems when you decided, hey, I want to actually compile and publish these, and what that process was like to gather them and decide what gets included or not, or you know, what order to put them in? What was that process over overall for you like?

SPEAKER_00

When I was putting it all together, this must have been, I want to say, in the midst of college. So around maybe 2019, but I know around um high school I was still writing too. So these are things that I've just like just writing, putting away, writing, putting away. So I feel like in um college, um, in 2019, I really was like, okay, like I really want to put these pieces somewhere safe. I don't know what I'm gonna do with them yet, but I want to put them somewhere safe. So in my in my notes app, I like to this day, I still have it where they're numbered. Um, and I that was my first place to put it. And then I was like, okay, I need to try, I want to put this like in a um more uh Google Drive and Google folder. So I put that in there. And you also helped me a lot with this too, because I did not have the um, I guess, organization of like what I truly envisioned. And I feel like you've helped me so much with that. Um, and numbering my poems and then separating them by like themes and topics. And so I feel like that process took years. Um, and so when I came to you 2021, that I I feel like I was still in the very beginning process, and I had didn't think about beforehand. Like you asking me this makes me think about like, okay, I'm I'm just like in the middle of class um in one of my classes, and I'm like writing out a poem and then I'm storing it somewhere and not knowing that that's gonna come up like a couple years from now, right? So I think knowing where you want to put something is super important and not like losing sight of like, okay, if I'm putting this one place, it's best then to just keep doing that because I was putting things in different, I had things in um journals. I was handwriting stuff and I had to transport that to my phone and then to like a Google Drive. So if I were to do it all over again, I would really just focus on putting it in one specific area. But also, I think me handwriting it was also a part of the process for me too. So, like I said, a lot of it was chaotic, but I feel like you have to figure out what works best for you. But that process was um then I um came to you and I had all of my um poems. And then I feel like whenever I gave you the opportunity to um read them, which I you might ask that question later on, but like that was just like so hard, that was like heart-wrenching for me. And I remember telling you that. Like it, I've never allowed someone to be that intimate with my words. Um, and then I also didn't know how you were going to receive it as well. And I think that's a big thing um for creatives. It's like, how is that person gonna receive it? Even though we know that once we let it go, it's no longer ours and it's okay because it's still always going to be ours. But that process was really hard for me to do. And so trusting you um was difficult, but also super liberating because I I know that whatever you took from my pieces, it that was okay. I had to be okay with, I had to make peace with whatever it was, you know, and that was a part that's a that's the big part of it as well. It's just making peace with it. So chaotic organization and making peace.

SPEAKER_01

There's so much, so many nuggets there for people who are, and I hear and I hear myself in that process because you know it's so crazy is that I'm where I'm right now where you were in terms of having pieces in different places and starting to want to compile them, not yet at a place where I feel ready to share, but I so I can very much understand that feeling now. I mean, I've been on the other side, the receiving end of that so many times, and very much understand. I've always I always call it like a sacred position to be in to receive somebody's baby and to handle with care. And now that I'm approaching it from the other side, I'm like, I'm amazed. I'm like, my clients, like how have they been able to do this? Because it is um, it's vulnerable, it requires vulnerability for sure. But what you said about organizing is very wise, and I will echo that if you are starting, if you are able to start with the end in mind to have a designated place for your work, I'm also one that likes to handwrite. So I have a remarkable tablet so that I can like email myself my notes or uh transcribe them. Um, but I rem I do remember part many parts of that process with you, uh feeling because I remember that there are many poems in that collection that have to do with like relationships, yes, and feeling like connected to you because I mean, nothing new under the sun, but just like okay, wow, there's been some similar experiences here. Like I can feel the energy of that again in this short form. And at that point, I don't believe I had engaged with a lot of poetry, but so for me it was like a perfect reminder, or since I, you know, study poetry in high school, maybe, but a reminder and introduction into like a genre that I would soon enter without realizing it. Um one thing that I loved about your collection is that you engaged an illustrator to um create illustrations that we included throughout the book. And I remember that process. You had um, I believe it was a friend that did that. Oh, yes.

SPEAKER_00

And it enhanced my dear friend Jordan.

SPEAKER_01

Jordan, it enhanced the work so much. What was that collaboration like? And what did engaging an illustrator teach you about co-creating and sharing a creative vision?

SPEAKER_00

That is such a good question. Um, first of all, like, shout out to Jordan. I absolutely love her. She is um my childhood friend. We've been friends for, I feel like since we've been babies, and um, she is an amazing, amazing human being who does all types of things, and the most creative person that I um have met, and I I could go on a soul box soulbox about her. She's awesome. We I I really um thought about her ability to um draw and create, and I was like, wow, this would be so awesome because I was just gonna have my words, you know, and I feel like, you know, there's nothing wrong with that. But again, I really am big on community. So I'm like, why not, you know, um invite one of my close friends into my world as well? And so I had to then give her all of it. It's like it was so, it's so crazy because I'm like, I had to first do it with you, and then I had to do it with uh my close friends, but I had to give it, give it all to her too and say, hey, like, um, is there a way that you could create, you know, maybe because I think I had, I don't know how many uh uh direct pieces, but about half. I was like, only half um of these pieces I want to um assign like a drawing to or an illustration. And so, and immediately she was like, yes. And so from there, I allowed her to then pick the ones that spoke to her. And so that process was really good for me because I was like, I didn't want it to be a like um a situation where it was like, okay, you have to um create something from these specific pieces because then I don't think that she would allow her creativity to shine, you know? And so she was able to pick the pieces she wanted, um, and it was beautiful because when I saw her illustrations, I'm like, wow, you took that from what I wrote, and and it was amazing. And then she was able to um then do more because then she, I think she created even more from that. And so that process was really nice. And we were going back and forth and where where even some pieces we didn't necessarily align, but it was more so like it wasn't like, oh, this isn't good or this isn't um match. It was more so like, okay, do you feel like um this is something that we want to share with everyone? Is this something collectively that we both want to sign off on? Because after me writing it, um, I had that complete control, but then now I'm also um sharing that with someone else and giving them also complete control because this is not only my work that's gonna be out there, like your name is on this book too, you know? And so that process was really beautiful. It really took a lot of trust, it looked, it took a lot of vulnerability, but it also um I think grew our friendship more. And so I I think that that's amazing to have someone um who's in your community who also has skills and talents, and y'all work together to do something, um, to put something out there for someone else. But it was a beautiful experience to watch her um drawings and illustrations come to life. And then to look at it and then read my poems again and go back and forth. That process was really, it was really, really nice for me.

SPEAKER_01

That I love that you shared that because it it would it requires a lot of trust to bring somebody in, right? Editor, illustrator, another author. Um, but what you do when you lean into that process is that you give your co-creator an opportunity to engage their own creative process and become a channel in their own right. And so you're blending these mediums, and I think it's such a beautiful co-creation process that is harder than it looks. I can tell you from experience, like typically, you'd be surprised. Typically, when you have two authors on one book, so two writers, that can be very challenging. And so anytime I see a co-creation process that flows, like the way you and Jordan's process flows, I'm I'm in admiration because I know it's not always like that. It's definitely not always like that.

SPEAKER_00

Um you have to like also be accountable too, because it we're we're like best friends, we're like sisters, and then it's like, hey girl, I need that by this time. I need and it's and it's not, it's if you also find out how other people work and you also find out other people's limitations, but you also find out like, okay, they're pushing me, I'm also gonna push them. And it's this beautiful balance that you try to find. You're always trying to um meet them with.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Uh before we pivot to talk about like your your professional experience, I just want to say, because I'm thinking now about how much we were able to utilize those illustrations even when you were marketing your book, right? Because I want to like encourage other writers who are considering bringing on an illustrator to think about, yes, these if you do work with an illustrator, your illustrations can go inside your book, right? But we also use a lot of those illustrations for like social media, um, use them for different graphics, different elements, and those all kind of become uh your creative is because you're paying for those illustrations, they become like your creative property in a sense. And so there's so much that you can do with that to maximize that when you go to promote. So just like a plug for people to consider bringing on illustrators, especially live human beings. I know we are in the AI world right now. And um, I do work with authors who engage um AI to create our illustrations when they need to. But if you can afford to work with a real illustrator who's doing this by hand, I'm a huge proponent of that. I do want to say before we move on that your collection, everything in between, is published, is out there, it can be found. We published it through Amazon, right?

SPEAKER_00

Yes, we did. We published through Amazon. Um, and I like still have copies that I um sometimes um share with others as well. So yeah, there's still it's still there.

SPEAKER_01

So we'll I'll make yes, I will make sure I'll put the link to her collection in the show notes so people can find it and buy it. And I have my copy. I was so happy to get it. So let's um pivot to therapy and like attachment. Okay. All right. All right. So, how does your training and your work as a therapist influence the way you approach writing, if at all?

SPEAKER_00

I think it gives me such an abundance of knowledge, but also like gratitude for the human experience. Um, it's really hard to share your struggles with someone else, even if they are qualified or not. It's really hard to open up about things that you're struggling with or things that have happened um in your life. But being able to hear other people's stories has only like deepened my love for words, for language. Um, some of the techniques that I use um within my practice um is narrative therapy, which is the art of storytelling. And so I love that because that just lends itself to writing as well. And so it's really hearing other people's experiences and how they experienced them, who was involved, what happened, um, in that way you can get to know that person, but also you can see kind of what is what's going on for them, how did how did they experience that situation, who did they um exclude from the conversation that might have needed to be in there? All of those things are always playing in my um mind when people are telling me a story. Um and I think that just comes from like childhood of you know, hearing my mom tell a story, hearing my aunts tell stories, hearing like just yapping on the phone with um my community and how we storytell all the time. And that really does lend itself to writing because you are able to use what you um are hearing from other people um in a way that allows you to be close to them without being close to them. Like you don't have to be in the room next to them to know like what they're experiencing and what they've gone through. Um, and so I think that the way that I um am able to receive my clients um just gives me it gives me really an abundance of knowledge and grace to know that they're able to share that, but I'm also able to interpret it in a way to help them um to see those missing gaps or to also just see a different side of things because I'm not the person that experienced it firsthand.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Is I know some therapists ask their clients to write. Like I know my therapist is giving me like a lot of homework assignments to go write a letter. Do you ask your clients to to write as a form of therapy, like at home?

SPEAKER_00

Sometimes. Um, I it depends in different in different various forms. So for my clients who I may see like bi-weekly, I'm always like, hey, like keep uh your note tab running and just write down things that come to your mind so that we can talk about it because um you might come into session that day and you have something really pressing that you want to talk about, but something happened a week ago that we didn't get to address. So I'm always telling them to just kind of flush out those thoughts themselves. Um, and then um I really use I think writing in um, which we will talk about, but with my clients who have recently gone through a breakup or who are rediscovering, you know, their identity and things like that, um, I think that that is a great way for them to learn more about themselves. So I think that that's where I do utilize writing because they're able to just get the thoughts out of their head. I'm a big journaler, so I always tell my clients, hey, like if you like to journal, you can do that or you can type it out. But because some people don't like to put pen to paper, and that's perfectly fine. But that doesn't mean you don't, um, your voice doesn't have to be, doesn't have to land somewhere. There's other mediums for you to do it. So I think that I will I utilize writing in that way, but I also don't force my clients because some clients do not like, they don't want to write and they don't want to um do that. So I also will tell them to okay, voice note. Um, we have so many things um in this day and age where you don't have to do something that's uncomfortable for you, but that doesn't mean that you just don't do it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, amen. And I'll say this as an editor too, because I talk to writers who don't prefer to physically handwrite their stories and I'll say the same thing. You're still considered a writer if you are voice recording your main your novel or um something like that. So yes, Dooney, you specialize in attachment theory, which is pretty complex, but just for the sake of this conversation, could you broadly explain what attachment theory is in a nutshell?

SPEAKER_00

Okay, let me try. Um, so for me, I will start with I always believe that um everything we experience really derives from our childhood. Whether we like to believe it or not, it really does stem from there. And so how um your caregivers um decided to care for you during those really, really um critical times when you were a baby um shapes everything um moving forward. How you see the world, how you see how you see relationships, how you see friendships, how you navigate jobs, um, how your executive functioning is, of you being able to just carry out a task, all of that is really critical on the moments of when you were born to um whenever you, I would say, like when you're a baby, those first that first year of you um being alive. And so for attachment, it whenever you um are securely attached to your parents, meaning that they have provided you with a safe space, um, they allowed you to um fall and get up, and you were able to um call on them for help and they were there, but they still allowed you that independence. Um, that is a space that we all strive to be. I think everyone wants to have a secure attachment. Um, not everyone gets to have that, and it's unfortunate, but whenever you are um young, but you can develop that throughout your life with the help of therapy, with the help of um books, with the help of podcasts, with the help of so many things, you can you can get to a secure attachment. The other attachments, there's a lot of there's different attachments, but the ones that um a lot of times that you will you may see online or on TV or hear about is like anxious and avoidant. And so a lot of people really, really fall on um two of those sides, on either side of those. And once you are, I feel like in an anxious attachment, it is um due to just not having that predictability, having the predictability of knowing that your caregivers are going to be there. Um, and so you may internalize a lot of things. You are walking on eggshells, you are um kind of gauging people's tone because you um don't want to say or do the wrong thing, and you're always thinking forward. That's why I feel like that anxiety um creeps in because you're always thinking of the next thing of how to act. Um, whereas if you're avoidant, then more so you can maybe shut down like a change in someone's um tone, the yelling, or anything, it a lot makes you shut down to where you don't want to participate. Um, and that always is looked at as a negative. I think avoidance have a really um they a lot of people give avoidance a bad rep, but I wouldn't say any of your attachment styles are bad or good. I think it is just more information for you to learn about yourself so that you can have better relationships um with other people in your life.

SPEAKER_01

So, Duny, I love that breakdown that you gave of those primary attachment styles that we often hear about. And so, my question for you is for somebody that is anxiously attached, right? How might that attachment show up in their writing practice?

SPEAKER_00

I think trust. Trust would be a big one, a big thing. Like not trusting yourself to be able to write and not trusting that other people receive you. Um, and I think allowing yourself to not be received by other people as well and it being okay. Because I think with the anxious attachment is also um wanting that person to receive you, wanting them to um, you know, understand you and see you and hear you. And I think with the writing process, your community is going to do that regardless. And so trusting yourself that whatever I'm putting out here is going to find the right people. And if it doesn't, or whoever it doesn't find, doesn't, if there's no lack within myself, that's that's not the that's not the area of concern there and that you should keep writing because I think that that can be a block. Um, I know that I've also personally struggled with that myself of like, I don't know if someone's gonna understand this, and I don't know if they're gonna, you know, really receive it. And so then I um question my kind of entire identity surrounding writing. Um, and you can't do that. You have to keep going and know that whatever you are writing is going to find the right people. Um, and even if the right people are questioning what you are writing, there's no lack within yourself. All you need to do is be more curious, it's be more curious and ask yourself more questions and dig deeper.

SPEAKER_01

I like that. So I'm hearing that for like an anxiously attached person, the blocks that might appear might involve trust, self-trust, trusting that other people will understand them, receive them. That could cause somebody to either not write or if they do write, not share it or hold on to it and keep it close. Now, what would you say about someone that is um has an avoidant attachment? How might that present some blocks if that person is working on a project or wanting to manifest something as a writer?

SPEAKER_00

I also think it is kind of similar, but it's in a different way. Maybe the procrastination of not wanting to finish that project because of that impending judgment. Um, that is, I think, would be a big thing for an avoidant and just allowing yourself to complete something before um judging it, you know, before, yeah, allow that process to happen before you're judging yourself. Um, and then I think for an avoidant too is more so like having a having a safe space, having safe people to share um with. Because if you already are kind of having that wall-up of um not maybe wanting to complete something because you're free if you're in that judgment, then have safe people where you know um that wherever they land, that you are still going to be cared for. They're still going to um be there for you at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, that's so good. And you're speaking to me because I I I um that is my attachment, Sedal. And okay. Yes, I might what I envision, and of course, it's not one size fit all, right? Yeah. And um, and I don't like, I try not to generalize. What I imagine based on what you're saying is that someone that has an anxious attachment might be the type of person that doesn't necessarily have a problem pouring it out, like writing, they might have a lot of journals or something, right? Like, because it's coming up, they need to channel that. They just might get stuck with the sharing part or might over-explain. Someone that's sovoidant might struggle to even get the words on the page in the first place. Exactly, right? Yep, that's the one. Okay, okay. Um, okay, so just give us advice for maybe working through that. What is one thing that we started with anxious attachment? So, what is one thing that an anxiously attached person might do to work through that block, right? In order to work towards secure attachment as it relates to their writing practice?

SPEAKER_00

Um, I think that for an anxious person, um, it is when I relate it back to the trust. Um, I think it is finding um the things that you want to say, finding like the and the resources, like if you're reading, reading books that relate to what you're trying to say, so that you are building up that vocabulary so that in those anxious moments, you know, you are still feeling supported by um the work that you have done. Because I think it's hard sometimes whenever you are trying to put it all out there, it can feel like, okay, am I even like prepared for this? Did I even do any work to prepare myself for this moment? And it's like, yes, you have done all those things, but now you need to make sure that you um are keeping those in safe spaces. Like go back to um, I am an extra chapter. So I have books where I'm like, okay, I'm gonna go back to um like all about love by Bell Hooks. I'm gonna go back and I'm gonna read this chapter because I know that it really spoke to me. And then it's gonna make me feel more confident enough to then start again. And so just having those, I think plugging those pieces in of those resources that really, really help you so that you can go back to them whenever you might be feeling that bit of anxiety or feeling that kind of where you don't trust yourself to um to do the thing that you really want to do that you so that you set out to do.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. Okay. So for an anxious, uh, anxious attachment, like lean into the voice of truth. And if you maybe lose sight of your connection with your own voice of truth, then commute, you know, your community, things you've written in the past, kind of reconnect. Yes, reconnect. Okay, awesome. And so, same question for an avoidant. Um, like that one piece of advice that you would give to essentially what we're talking about is creating a sense of safety in order to stay focused and to keep going when you're facing those blocks when it comes to writing.

SPEAKER_00

Um for an avoidant, I would say you need to have a medium of where you of where you are documenting. So if you are voice noting, then voice note and make sure that whenever that inspiration sparks, don't wait because that's what you're, that's what that's what, that's what that moment's gonna pass and you're not gonna know what to do with it. So immediately, like voice note if you are um on your way somewhere, you know, um, if you are talking to a friend, say, hold on real quick, like I really got, I really have an amazing idea. Voice note real quick and store it away because then you're no longer going to be um, I think in the moments of like, okay, what do I write? Where do I start? You're gonna have all of that in a safe space so that you can go back to it, listen to it, and then maybe um get an idea from that so that you can create something else. So I think with um an avoidant, just on your day-to-day, have a place where you are putting um all the things.

SPEAKER_01

Love it. That's so helpful. All right, so this is more of a general question. It doesn't necessarily rate relate so much to attachment, but for any writer, right, who feels blocked or overly self-critical, what general guidance would you offer from a therapist's lens?

SPEAKER_00

I would say to go be with your community, go touch grass, go do absolutely something that is opposite of what you are trying to do. Um, I think so many times we commit to deadlines, we commit to all these things that um give us the anxiety and allow us to not um, I think, be our full selves. And if we take a moment, I think take a step back to know, like, hey, I do have a deadline next month, but I can't work this entire month without going to breathe and see other people and see life and see what is happening on the outside. I can't just be in this bubble. I have to um expand and stretch myself in other ways so that I can meet this deadline, so I can be there. And I think sometimes um that might not be um the best um, I guess, advice for people because you want to be super focused. But I find myself the times where I am loving all my friends, um, loving all my pets, um, engaging in anything other than my work, that is where I find myself feeling more encouraged to complete the work, more encouraged to come back to it and know that um it's there and that I don't have to run away from it. But I can, I can separate myself for a little bit.

SPEAKER_01

I love that. It's so interesting you say that the last conversation I had on this podcast, and I asked a similar question, the writer I was speaking to said the same thing. And then she it's take being willing to take a break from the writing for a moment to just experience life. Trust that when you come back to it, the words will come. And that's it's okay to disengage and take a break. I love that. Okay, so last question for you, Dooney. Looking across your work as a poet, a therapist, and a coach, what feels most important for you to leave behind in terms of legacy?

SPEAKER_00

I love that question. For me, I think it's knowing that I have made someone's day a little better. I look at that within my workup um therapy, and when I see my clients, and you know, some days I'm like, wow, I don't think I was of any use. And then I have to reframe that to say, you know what, I I did help at least one person today, you know. And so for me, I think that that's really what I want to leave behind is knowing that like I did help someone um um at some point at one day in one moment of their life where they made where they really needed it. Um, and that's good enough for me to know that because there's so many moments, there's so many people that we meet all the time. And if someone can say that, like, you know, Doonie helped me during this one tough time of my life, or um, she helped me uh in when I had um something going on and I didn't know how to get through that, and then they forget about me, that's fine. I I really I care about that moment that happened. And so I hope that I can help many people in many moments.

SPEAKER_01

Girl, yes. You are doing that for me right now, and you're doing it for for the listeners. I just want to thank you so much for sharing um some of your story, your wisdom, and your insight. There are a lot of um a lot of nuggets here, and I'm excited to go back and listen to this episode. I'm gonna take your advice as a writer who also is an avoidant or a recovering avoidant. Um Duny, you are, you told me that you are accepting new clients. And so, how can people get in touch with you? And I will make sure that I leave your links and information in the show notes as well.

SPEAKER_00

Hey, awesome. So you can get in touch with me by email. I'll send you the email as well. And then on Instagram, I am at whole you with Dooney. And so you can reach me there. And yeah, so you can reach me through Instagram by email. Well, thank you so much, Jane. I really appreciate just being here and sharing. This has like filled me up. So I'm super happy.

SPEAKER_01

Me too. And we need all all of us need help with attachment. I'm telling you, like you said, it affects everything, um, including our writing. So I'll make sure we share your information. I want to thank everybody for listening to this podcast, to this episode, um, and for joining me. I'm Janae. I'm with the right channel, and I will see you next time.